South African duo Jacques Du Toit and Tian Schoeman arrived in Bath in January and having completed their respective travel quarantines, are finally reunited at the Club. Still acclimatising to the UK winter – Tian confessing he hadn’t seen snow before arriving on English shores – the pair spoke about their relationship, which started on opposite sides of the field back in 2016.
Q: Can you talk a little bit around your friendship and how you two know each other?
JDT: We met just after I played Tian in our Currie Cup Final in 2016, so he was with the Bulls. I came to the Cheetahs and he joined up with us and from there on, you know, the hookers normally want to have a chat with the nine or the ten so that they pass the ball to them! So, I think we pretty much built up a relationship from there.
Tian: Yeah, I have to agree. The first time I met Jacques was 2016 in the Final, and unlucky for me I was on the wrong side at that game, they beat us…they won! Afterwards I went to Bordeaux for a year and then came back and joined the Cheetahs; that’s obviously where I met Jacques and have been really playing well with him. He’s a real good player and he brings a lot of flair to the forwards, so I really enjoyed it.
Q: Is it always awkward when you come from the runner up team of a Final to transfer to the winning team?
Tian: Yeah, luckily in 2019 we also won the Currie Cup together so that was good - but the whole 2019 Currie Cup build up until the Final, all the clips shown were of the 2016 Final. So every time the clips were shown of the Final of the Cheetahs winning the ball, I was on the Bulls side! There was a lot of teasing on the other side but luckily we did it – we did win one together as well.
Q: When did conversations start to happen about moving to Bath…did you two connect and say 'I’m also going' or was it a joint decision?
Tian: At the moment in South Africa everything is a little hush hush. You don’t want to play your hand too early. Obviously you want to, but you only talk about it once you have signed the contract. So I signed and then immediately after it got out. We had a little chat amongst the team - not the coaches - just as players, and then a little birdy told me about Jacques also signing with Bath. I asked him about it and he confirmed that he was more than thinking about signing so yeah, we were obviously very excited to have each other here.
JDT: Yeah I think from my side, I kept quiet about it - I didn’t really tell anyone that they were looking to sign me for the same reasons. I wanted to share it with everybody because we were very excited to come but as Tian said, I didn’t have the official paperwork yet so I didn’t want to over play my hand. Then on one afternoon, in a funny way, he confronted me about it and I couldn’t really hide anymore! From there on we were just happy to share it with each other.
Q: What attracted you to the City?
Tian: I’ve never been to Bath, except for the last three weeks. I spoke to a lot of guys in the team and all of them were like, ‘you should go for this, you should go for this, Bath is an awesome city, it’s a beautiful place, it’s awesome rugby, you should go for this’. Then my agent sent me through some of the Bath history, some of the Club’s history and what an awesome city it is and stuff like that. Then me and my wife were really excited for signing.
JDT: So for me, we played Cardiff in the Pro 14 one season and on an off day, some of the guys said lets take the train to Bath, see how it is. Like Tian said, it’s a beautiful city, so accessible, so attractive to look at. I’m familiar with the Premiership and how well the Club had been doing at that stage as well. All of us were just phoning up our wives that day saying listen, we need to come and play at Bath one day! I think from a young age I wanted to come and play Premiership because I think its one of the most professional leagues that’s currently played, the coaching and the facilities are all world class. Then when the opportunity came and it was Bath, I was just over the moon because I have been here, have seen it, have seen the rugby. The previous year they had played in the semi-finals. They did really well so that was just exciting to come and join a team that’s already on the way to winning trophies again.
Q: When your agents sent through the history of the Club and the City, was there anything about the culture or the ethos of the Club that really made you think, ‘yes, I want to play for Bath’?
JDT: I think from my side what attracted me to Bath is the fact that there weren’t really a lot of South Africans who have played here in the past. You’ve got your Francois Louw and Micheal Claassens who have been here but there wasn’t a huge group. I think that’s why I wanted to join, I didn’t want to go to a Club where there’s already a clique of South Africans; I wanted to experience the English culture, the English lads because I believe you can learn something from everyone.
Tian: I have to agree with Jacques. One of the main reasons why I signed is because there’s not a lot of South Africans here, so there's not a lot of South African culture. I know when I was in France, Montpellier is almost South African; some of the meetings are held in Afrikaans! I wanted to experience more of the English culture, more of the English type of play and that’s why I also really like signing with Bath. I know Butch James was here before and I also spoke to Michael Claassens who is a great friend of mine, and he just had good things to say.
Q: What were you expecting from the Premiership?
Tian: Pretty much what I got! I was expecting hard, tough, mental fight type of rugby, you know, big boys running big channels and that’s what I got. Like I said in one of my earlier interviews, I think the team that makes the most mistakes is the team that loses. The thing in the English Premiership is you get punished for your mistakes, so the team that makes the fewest mistakes ends up winning, because the other team can’t score points. Its more of a chess game than just a brutal sheer force thing, it's planned and actually, I really enjoyed it, it’s really good!
Q: I guess for you Jacques this is the first time you’ve left South Africa to ply your trade, so what did you expect?
JDT: I think what I’m expecting is competitive games every weekend. You know you get your top of the log playing bottom of the log but it’s still competitive. You don’t call the winner from in the week. It’s game by game, it’s home and away advantages and disadvantages but you know you can’t go into a game top against bottom saying top is going to win, because every game is so competitive. The crowds, when there are crowds eventually, make a massive difference and I think I’m looking forward to the challenge, knowing that you have to go out and fight for every game. Whereas in South Africa you’ve got your smaller clubs where you sort of expect a win - you still have to work for it but it's expected that you’re going to win this game whereas, in the Premiership, every game is a fight.
Q: Just talk to us a little bit about what you got up to in isolation. Did you spend time with training clips getting to grips with playing patterns and styles, learning line-out calls?
JDT: Throughout the 14-days I spoke to some of the coaches on Zoom, just getting familiar with what to expect on my first day of training. I wanted to be prepared, I didn't want to go in the first day not knowing anything, having to ask around, so I had a good chat with the coaches and they’ve all been so brilliant and so welcoming, especially the players as well. Further than that, we were just trying to keep our little one busy! We’ve got a two-year-old boy so luckily, him and my wife could come over with me, so we had to isolate together. That was just the biggest thing - trying to find new ways to burn energy with a toddler so that you can actually have some quiet time as well!
Tian: For me, I had 18-days in isolation. I had 12-days and then I got out for one day and then we had the false positives, so we all went back into isolation again. But before my first day also I spoke to a lot of the coaches, especially on the attacking coaching and kicking plans, just to familiarize myself with all the calls and kicking plays and patterns to make sure I know what the guys are talking about once I got there.
You’ve both brought your families over….
Tian: Yes my family only came over last week!
JDT: I think it’s going to be important just to socialize, especially from our wives' side. For us coming over you’ve got a whole new team and environment, and you get to introduce yourself to new people whereas they are just stuck at home, especially in lockdown. They don’t see or meet other people, so hopefully, as soon as the lockdown ends all the partners can get together and experience the team environment as well.
Q: We’re obviously in the week of Gloucester, a big derby game for Bath Rugby. Do you have that environment in South Africa, where you’ve got that close rivalry between two local teams?
Tian: In South Africa almost every team has its own derby. I know at the Cheetahs we use to play the Griquas Cheetahs; we were always winning but it was a massive game. You know it's two teams and they both just come hard. I know one of the biggest derbies in South Africa is the Bulls against the Western Province; it’s the north versus the south so it's one of the big derbies as well. So, I think we have experienced some derbies and we know it’s important for both teams, so it’s a really exciting but also hard-working week and an exciting game that’s ahead.
Q: Finally, what are you going to bring to Bath Rugby? What attributes will you bring to the team?
Tian: OK, I’ll go first! Ever since when I was at the Bulls, one of my things was I was an attacking fly-half, a playing fly-half, so my last option was kicking. Sometimes it bites you because it’s a little bit of a risky game, but it fitted well with the Cheetahs' game plan. So I’m going to bring an attacking flair, an attacking mindset. And obviously, I want to learn when to kick and to play a safer game, a strategic game.
JDT: I’ve never been that forward that just goes into rucks and just bashes it up. I think what I would like to try and bring is just a few options – if I need to run it then I can, if I need to swing the ball 15-metres to assist a try that would also be great, just to link up with the back-line player, spot spaces. I really want to express myself in the structured way of playing in the Prem, just to find ways to try and be different. I think in my previous games, I don’t conform to what a normal hooker does or even a back-row; I’m a bit of everything. I pride myself on communicating well and working on the pitch so I’ll try and measure myself on making a lot of actions in short periods of time, showing up for my team mates, showing up for the coaches.